Opinion: Olbermann and name calling…
Tuesday, I noted that Keith Olbermann crossed a line when he called FNC’s Chris Wallace a “monkey”. Apparently this is a line that Olbermann wants to stay on the other side of as evidenced by his characterizations of FNC head Roger Ailes’ weight both Wednesday and Thursday. As someone who has had his own up and down weight battles and has friendships with people who have weight problems, I wince whenever the subject of someone’s weight is brought up for ridicule.
That Olbermann hates FNC, and for that matter anything connected to Rupert Murdoch, is not really in dispute. But there are ways to crticize and there are ways not to criticize and school yard name calling isn’t one of them in my opinion. Olbermann isn’t going to convince the undecideds out in TV land of the validity of his arguments, however valid they may be, by going this route. Insults detract from whatever substance the arguments have and puts the focus of the attack squarely on the insult. And name calling and personal insults have a short life span as a weapon. At some point the viewer will become desensitized to them.
As these insults pile up, Olbermann risks becoming the very thing he apparently despises most about FNC (judging by his previous comments); a loudmouth talking head who takes the low road with the cheap shot instead of making substantive points. Is that really what he wants to be?
(Note: the “loudmouth talking head who takes the low road with the cheap shot” characterization is based on Olbermann’s numerous pieces on some of FNC’s talent and not based on any personal opinions I may or may not have. So don’t be sending me comments saying that I said FNC is made up of loudmouth talking heads who take the low road with the cheap shot. Because I didn’t say that. I would say that I pefer it if nobody went that route but I acknowledge that talking head TV is very opinionated and there is an audience segment out there who tunes in to see the talking heads give their opinions. I just wish they could do it in a less “volatile” manner.)
Don’t you have anyone else to talk about?
Comment by William — September 29, 2006 @ 9:52 am
I’ll agree with that. It seems like every time KO gets any buzz or MSM coverage he seems to “poison the well” with stupid comments. Instead of “riding the wave” from the extra attention he gets on occasion…Its almost as if he wants more people to watch just so he can say something totally “off the wall” and drive them away. I think the Democrats need a strong voice to represent them on tv. However, KO is a “loose cannon” and he just reaffirms this with the latest personal attack which has nothing to do with the matter at hand.
Comment by Terance — September 29, 2006 @ 9:58 am
I’ve heard him take many potshots at people over the years based on their physical appearance. While I agree that there are many good reasons to ridicule Fox, making fun of someone’s physical appearance is beyond the pale for this viewer. And besides, does he own a mirror? Because it seems to me that his own girth is hardly svelte. I really fear that he is becoming the Liberal O’Reilly.
Comment by Alison — September 29, 2006 @ 9:59 am
Keith has had a long history of showing an incredible disdain for Fox News.
Comment by Bob — September 29, 2006 @ 10:05 am
William, sure he does. But check out the other threads, those “true” news-related stories of “substance” or “significance”. They get anywhere from zero to one response.
Comment by Missy — September 29, 2006 @ 10:08 am
There’s a lot to fault Roger Ailes for, but his girth is irrelevant to them.
That said, who has ever trashed Michael Moore without also mentioning his size?
Comment by Arthur — September 29, 2006 @ 10:34 am
Keith Olbermann can only hope, wish, pray, and dream of one day becoming 1/100th the journalist Chris Wallace is, really.
Comment by Pete — September 29, 2006 @ 10:49 am
Has Olbermann looked at himself in the mirror lately? He can barely button up his own suit anymore. I used to adore the guy too and now I just feel sorry for him.
Comment by Jackie — September 29, 2006 @ 11:05 am
William, I agree. Spud often tries to point out he has no “bias”, but then day after day after day begins a thread with the latest supposed Olbermann “outrage”. (OBVIOUSLY the “weight” comment about Ailes was related to the power he wields, along with his ego. KO has NEVER made fun at the expense of “real” people with “real” infirmities, as Spud well knows. And the “monkey” appellation was as in “trained mobnkey” or “waterboy”, since Wallace’s question was clearly not his own, but a “talking point” from the rewrite-history crowd. NO BOOK HAS EVER STATED CLINTON DID NOT “CONNECT THE DOTS”.)
It’s clear that he intends to throw red meat to the rabid, visceral Olbermann-haters who populate this site, and of course they do come out of the woodwork with their name-calling comments, because they cannot accept even ONE alternative voice to their FAUX propaganda network. That drives up traffic, and then Spud can claim “records have been broken” and hopefully draws more attention here. This site used to be differentiated from the obsessive “Olbermann Watch”, but sadly now it looks like if you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em.
Comment by David — September 29, 2006 @ 2:33 pm
Before the name-calling begins, I must apologize: yes, I do know how to spell “monkey”.
Comment by David — September 29, 2006 @ 2:36 pm
> OBVIOUSLY the “weight” comment about Ailes was related to the power he wields, along with his ego. KO has NEVER made fun at the expense of “real” people with “real” infirmities, as Spud well knows.
I’m sorry but you’re very mistaken. Olby’s comment about Ailes made fun of his “circular” shape. What does that have to do with the “power he wields”? NOTHING! Olby has made fun of people’s weight, called them ugly, swine, etc.
When Spud does an opinion piece, I disagree with him about half the time. He is the most nonpartisan blogger on all the internets. To say otherwise sounds like someone is out to punish him for daring to criticize the Great and Powerful Olb.
Comment by johnny dollar — September 29, 2006 @ 2:38 pm
Before the name-calling begins, I must apologize: yes, I do know how to spell “monkey”.
I’m not going to call you names. Just say that you are unfortunately mistaken. Where’s this “Day after day” stuff come from anyways? If you look back through this blog’s archives you’ll note that I’ve spent a lot more time taking O’Reilly to task for his attempts to respond to Olbermann.
Only this week because Olbermann crossed what I consider to be a line that should not be crossed has he forced me to take a position on the blog. I can’t in good conscience stay silent after beating on Bill O. for his silly attacks on MSNBC.
Olbermann knows darn well that he can make his case without the name calling. And, frankly, he could make it better than he has. Instead of talking about that midnight ratings “coup” he could have pointed out that FNC has had twelve straight months of year to year declines in the prime time ratings which is a far better argument (though not bulletproof) to use to counter the notion that FNC should be worried more about the broadcast networks than the cable networks. But I digress…
There is no such thing as “real people” and “real infirmities”. You can’t carve out exceptions based upon ideology. Not and have any validity of an argument. It’s like the jokers who say FNC isn’t a real news network. What utter rubbish. Just because it’s not the way they like their news isn’t reason enough to discredit it. It’s why I keep writing about MSNBC. It’s a real news network even though it languishes in third place. Though I get plenty of flack for covering it from people who say that MSNBC should be shut down.
Comment by Spud — September 29, 2006 @ 2:52 pm
If your definition of “non-partisan” is not devoting this entire site to Olbermann, as YOU do, then I would agree. But a review of the threads for the past two weeks or more shows the VAST majority related to KO “controversies”, as compared to, say, the INCREDIBLE (literally) allegations made in O’Reilly’s latest screed.
As for KO vs. FOX, I will stand behind my comment that his comments about Ailes were ONLY because of the power he wields, and his public figure status. O’Reilly says far worse in the first three minutes of virtually every show.
Comment by David — September 29, 2006 @ 2:57 pm
That’s not a fair comparison becuase it ignores the obvious…Olbermann’s “controversies” if you want to call them that, and I wouldn’t, are on TV or in interviews and O’Reilly’s book is…well…a book. I don’t generally cover books. I’m not going to cover Olbermann’s book. I did start to cover Jeff Cohen’s book on working at CNN, FNC, and MSNBC, but got sidetracked.
And I wouldn’t say I’m non-partisan or unbiased. I would say that I try to put my partisanship and biases in check and strive to be fair. Am I perfect about it? No. But I try to be.
Sure, Olbermann’s comments about Ailes were about his status at FNC. But that doesn’t excuse his choice of words any more than context excuses anything O’Reilly does that’s over the line.
Comment by Spud — September 29, 2006 @ 3:16 pm
My point was NOT that comments about “weight” are acceptable in general, but that by devoting an entire thread to it, without the context of WHY Olbermann was angry (not to mention some of the words Ailes has thrown in his direction in the past), and without reference to any other similar comments and invective hurled by FOX “hosts” all day, you have elevated Olbermann’s words to a status undeserved…IF, as you say, you strive to be fair here. I was pointing out that along with your increasingly harsh critiques of Olbermann–the sole alternative “voice” in the cable news spectrum, that you bring all the “Olbermann Watch” types out of the woodwork. I hope it’s not intentional.
As for O’Reilly, I might not have been clear: of course this site is not for book reviews, but in a larger context, if you TRULY are upset about Olbermann’s word choices here and there, please at least read a transcription or two of O’Reilly/Cavuto/Gibson/Hannity, because there’s FAR, FAR more “bad choices” of words contained therein.
Comment by David — September 29, 2006 @ 4:59 pm
I wish KO would stop with the cheap shots and insults as well. He is a talented, intelligent individual. People being hurling insults when they run out of logical arguments or when they are bitter. He certainly is smart enough to overcome both. Maybe he needs to try harder.
Comment by Goldfish — September 29, 2006 @ 6:21 pm
People begin, I meant.
Comment by Goldfish — September 29, 2006 @ 6:39 pm
Well, Spud, if you were critical of KO’s name calling when you posted this, you should hear him now. This is a turn-off. He just called Ailes “fat ass” and made a bunch of demeaning comments. I switched the channel.
Comment by Goldfish — September 29, 2006 @ 8:20 pm
I heard it too goldfish. He did indeed call Ailes “fat ass”. It appears to me that Olbermann has his own weight problem judging by the views I saw of him when he did his Clinton interview, so where does he get off insulting anyone else about their weight? I’m so turned off by this I can’t even begin to describe it. There are a lot of good things to insult both Ailes and Fox News on but making cheap, low blows at someone’s weight isn’t one of them.
Comment by Alison — September 29, 2006 @ 8:27 pm
David, you make a fair point about the back story to Olbermann’s saga with Murdoch and what happened with Fox Sports Net. But I wouldn’t be breaking any new ground by retelling a story that has been told before and can be accessed by searching the internet (I think…it’s been a while since I last checked).
And yeah, I know that the Olbermann Watch types probably read this blog, at least some do maybe. But what you don’t know is that all new users comments have to go through me before they get posted. So a lot of the vitriol you’d see on Olbermann Watch is stopped cold before it ever gets posted on ICN. And I’ve been doing the same thing in regards to many of the more severe attacks on O’Reilly and FNC. And I’ve nuked numerous comments that go over the line in regards to all of the above, plus comments that weren’t “appropriate” in regards to other networks and talent. Policing the comments is nearly as much effort as posting blog entries for me.
Admittedly, this whole thing is a slippery slope proposition. Where does one draw the line? I guess I draw the line at personal insults. I try to steer clear of ideological commentary and criticism because this isn’t a political blog and though I’m not happy with the political tone in a lot of what I see in talking head TV, my dislike is negated somewhat by the realization that politics is relative. If an O’Reilly criticizes a judge or something, the rhetoric may or may not be bad but it’s not really about another network or talent. I prefer to keep the posts confined to the network talent spats. If I was doing a politics blog then the situation would be different. But you’re right, in principle there’s no difference between an attack on another network and an attack on someone not affiliated with TV. An attack is an attack is an attack.
Comment by Spud — September 29, 2006 @ 8:31 pm
Look at his ratings……can you say “Bottom of the Heap?!. He only makes himself look as small or smaller than he is with these shots.
Comment by Paul — September 29, 2006 @ 8:32 pm
I agree with William. The longer Spud talks about this low-life, the more Olbermann thinks he has become an icon. We need to dump this guy down the garbage heap where he belongs. (Hope that’s not name-calling, Spud.)
Comment by RGL — September 30, 2006 @ 8:16 am
Olbermann could have a lot more influence with his insightful remarks if he would temper the humor attempts. He has been on target with his editorials lately and needs to focus on those more.
Comment by ladyone — September 30, 2006 @ 3:18 pm
Please resist the urge to name-call and verbally abuse, KO. You’re becoming one of the people you rail against.
Comment by Goldfish — September 30, 2006 @ 5:54 pm
How on earth does TVNewser think it can get away with ignoring this?
Comment by Frank — September 30, 2006 @ 9:55 pm
Maybe there is a reason he’s been ignoring it. Hmmm…
Comment by Goldfish — October 1, 2006 @ 10:00 pm
Frank, who do you think owns TVNewser? He can post and say what he likes. Are you saying you’re his boss? Are you an internet hitman?
Comment by erljr — October 2, 2006 @ 1:24 am
I’ll have to say that it seems to me that TVN has been ignoring Olbermann news of any kind as of late and it has left me scratching my head. Come on, he called Chris Wallace a monkey and Roger Ailes a fat ass! I can’t imagine that if someone from either CNN or Fox had called Chris Wallace a Toad and Dan Abrams a skinny ass that he would have let it go unreported.
Comment by Alison — October 2, 2006 @ 9:13 am
Wow. Seems like Olbermann’s enemies have nothing to say anymore about the mistreatment he got from the NY Post when he got the fake anthrax…but let him call someone a “monkey” or a “fatass,” and the blog explodes with outrage at the unfairness of it all…even from Spud!
Talk about a double standard.
Sure Olbermann can make his points without calling anyone names…but the mere fact that HE is condemned for doing so here, while Fox News people do it with regularity and without comment, just goes to show what kind of attitude holds reign here.
The commenters here think Olbermann calling Fox people names is WORSE than Olbermann being ridiculed by the Post. Heck, they think it’s worse morally than sending Olbermann fake anthrax. After all, half of them will believe he sent it to himself unless proven otherwise!
Amazing.
Comment by tanne — October 3, 2006 @ 7:34 am
When has anyone from Fox called anyone a “fat ass,” let alone the head of a competing network? And imagine if they did, it would be plastered all over TVN day and night. It’s complete hypocrisy and everyone without a partisan agenda recognizes that.
Comment by Frank — October 3, 2006 @ 10:41 am