The War on Christmas?
The Philadelphia Daily News’ Carol Towarnicky writes about the “war on Christmas”…
“Every company in America should be on its knees thanking Jesus for being born,” O’Reilly said two Christmases ago when he discovered the “war” that nobody else had noticed. “Without Christmas, most American businesses would be far less profitable.” And O’Reilly doesn’t want rich or poor, man or woman, gentile or Jew to forget it.
Too bad nobody noticed we were losing in the War on Advent. Then again, Advent has never turned a profit.
Old-timers may recall that, back when Christmas was a religious holiday, the four weeks of Advent was the time when many Christians prepared their hearts for the birth of Jesus. Back then, the first Sunday of Advent used to be the official beginning of the Christmas season - before it was replaced by another religious ritual, Black Friday.
And most stores were closed on sunday.Merry Christmas
Comment by Shane — December 12, 2007 @ 10:04 am
“that nobody else had noticed” what planet are you living on? What an ideate!
Comment by Kirk G — December 12, 2007 @ 10:36 am
This woman’s writing is very confusing. I think she’s trying to trash O’Reilly, yet she then agrees with him, with her “back when Christmas was a religious holiday” remark.
Anyway, the war is real, albeit on a smaller scale possibly thanks to O’Reilly and John Gibson. I checked w/Snopes, and sure enough, they ARE taking “Christmas” out of their advertising. http://www.snopes.com/politics/christmas/bestbuy.asp . So I (and others, I presume) have taken ourselves out of their stores.
Comment by Missy — December 12, 2007 @ 10:57 am
I am so sorry for my many mistakes on this site. I should have said “Best Buy” instead of “they”. Anyway, I will resolve to proofread more closelyh.
Comment by Missy — December 12, 2007 @ 10:58 am
And then I have a typo in my apology! I had better sign off for now. Have a nice day, everyone.
Comment by Missy — December 12, 2007 @ 10:59 am
OK.Boycott Best Buy.Lowes got the hint and fast.Merry Christmas
Comment by Shane — December 12, 2007 @ 11:03 am
Another loony lefty. Why were stores having signs that said Happy Holidays like Walmart, Macy’s etc… then under pressure they went back to having it say Merry Christmas.
Comment by Lurker — December 12, 2007 @ 11:06 am
I think she’s trying to trash O’Reilly, yet she then agrees with him, with her “back when Christmas was a religious holiday” remark.
Uh, no. If Christmas were a purely religious holiday, it wouldn’t matter whether or not people wished you a merry Christmas. When was the last time you wished someone a happy candlemas? or happy samhain?
This: “Without Christmas, most American businesses would be far less profitable.” is pure nonsense. Every society has had a gift-giving holiday. If it wasn’t Christmas, it would be the harvest festival or the winter solstice. Early Christians cleverly positioned the unknown date of the birth of Christ (thought by many scholars to be in the spring) to coincide with the roman festival of Saturnalia, which is also the birthdate of the god Mithra, and the pagan celebration of the solstice.
It astounds me that many Christians want to associate their holiest holiday with the crassest consumerism.
Comment by Arthur — December 12, 2007 @ 11:50 am
Hasn’t FNC declared “mission accomplshed” already in this war? I really don’t have the energy to fight “happy holiday” insurgents for the next four years.
Comment by chase — December 12, 2007 @ 11:57 am
“It astounds me that many Christians want to associate their holiest holiday with the crassest consumerism.”
Hey Art:
As a Christian, I associate Christmas with Christ–not consumerism and all the other psychobabble you noted. Most christians do not associate CHRISTmas with all the crap the media tooses at us.
As for, cleverly positioned….unknown date…come on,this is the exact reason many get upset!
It is not a difficult concept; a religious holiday that is not the ‘flavor of the month’ per our news media or looney left is trashed. So what else is new?
Comment by doppler — December 12, 2007 @ 12:03 pm
^ Haha…”happy holiday insurgents.”
Yeah, things have died down on the “War on Christmas” front it seems. Although my town just put up new street lamps in the shopping area and they put up banners that read “Happy Holidays” and “Seasons Greetings.” Perhaps I should e-mail Bill or John Gibson and let them know about this “outrage.”
Comment by FishOil — December 12, 2007 @ 12:34 pm
Arthur, I have never heard of anyone celebrating “winter solstice”. Isn’t it a witchcraft kinda of thing?
I believe the tradition of gift-giving began with the Magi bring gifts to the Lord Jesus. What would prompt the wiccans or whomever to exchange gifts?
Comment by Missy — December 12, 2007 @ 1:27 pm
I believe the tradition of gift-giving began with the Magi bring gifts to the Lord Jesus. What would prompt the wiccans or whomever to exchange gifts?
good lord, Missy - do you believe no one ever gave gifts until 1 AD?
Wikipedia on Saturnalia: “Besides the public rites there were a series of holidays and customs celebrated privately. The celebrations included a school holiday, the making and giving of small presents (saturnalia et sigillaricia) and a special market (sigillaria).”
I said it before - ALL cultures have had a gift-giving tradition around some holiday or festival. It is Christo-centric arrogance to think it BEGAN with Christianity.
Comment by Arthur — December 12, 2007 @ 2:00 pm
But, Arthur, don’t you know that NOTHING came before Christians? No Romans, no Greeks, no dinosaurs? Wait, is the world flat or not?
/sarcasm
Comment by tommod — December 12, 2007 @ 3:10 pm
heh - well, tommod, a surprising number of people appear to believe that…
Comment by Arthur — December 12, 2007 @ 3:21 pm
I just heard O’Reilly (radio) spend his last hour on the war on Christmas. He talked about this op-ed by Towarniky and gave the impression to the listener that she was some religion-hating loon. The only thing I heard him quote from her column is “no religion should be in the public square”. He did not discuss the major thrust of her column. But I read her column and she brings up many good points worthy of discussion. I appreciate her wondering aloud about the true meaning of Christmas vs. commercialism. Glad I read her column through this post. I feel like O’Reilly tried to dupe me. At least now I know the rest of the story.
Comment by STP — December 12, 2007 @ 3:55 pm
I am posting to address something that #8 Arthur i belive said.
Many scolars also belive that the birth of Jesus was in the early Autumn.
I had the honor few years back to be at the University of Bologna and the one of the toppic was this area and it was very illuminating
Anyway one of the mny opinions
Comment by Sandy — December 12, 2007 @ 5:07 pm
The Left flips out when O’Reilly talks about the “War on Christmas”…but the stories he reports are true..so if it isn’t a war…then its atleast a “Police action against Christmas”.
Comment by mlong — December 12, 2007 @ 7:18 pm
Well… if you call it ‘flipping out’ when one rolls one’s eyes and snorts derisively at the right making yet another poor pitiful Christian Victims federal case out of nothing year after year after year…
Comment by Arthur — December 12, 2007 @ 9:12 pm
Arthur, you know that you are not the sole embodiment of the left, right? Man… read a newspaper, check out a blog, listen to the radio… O’Reilly gets raked over the coals over and over again for talking about the Christmas issue.
And then, when someone says to him, “Oh yeah, well give me an example…” And he talks about the chain of stores that forbid their employees to say “Merry Christmas”… or the library that is no longer allowed to show a manger scene… of the school that can’t decorate with green and red anymore… you can see the haters eyes glaze over, they don’t want to hear it, they’ve already made up their minds. It doesn’t matter what he says, “O’Reilly is wrong” that’s the mantra. Nothing else matters. Don’t be that guy.
Comment by ImNotBlue — December 13, 2007 @ 12:04 am
Huh? since when were red and green ‘Christian’ team colors? What are the Jewish team colors, then? Or Muslims?
I’m perfectly prepared to believe there are people on the left who get as irrationally hysterical as Bill O’Reilly does, but that hardly means he has a point.
Comment by Arthur — December 13, 2007 @ 4:17 am
Red and green as “Christian” colors… well, I didn’t say it was a good argument… just one made by those attacking Christmas.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58528
QUOTE:
November 6, 2007
A special task force in a Colorado city has recommended banning red and green lights at the Christmas holiday because they fall among the items that are too religious for the city to sponsor.
“Some symbols, even though the Supreme Court has declared that in many contexts they are secular symbols, often still send a message to some members of the community that they and their traditions are not valued and not wanted. We don’t want to send that message,” Seth Anthony, a spokesman for the committee, told the Fort Collins, Colo., Coloradoan.
__________________
You misunderstood the second part of my post, though. With this War on Christmas issue, there are a whole lot of people who disagree that it’s happening, who hate the idea that a majority of people (ie Christians) could be discriminated against, and are particularly enraged by the idea solely because O’Reilly is championing it. It doesn’t matter how much evidence of an actual Christmas struggle there might be (like the totally ludicrous idea of banning red and green), some people will willfully ignore it… rolling their eyes, scoffing, and otherwise dismissing any argument made, because it interferes with their predetermined opinions about the matter.
From what you’ve posted thus far about this topic, you might be falling into that group of people. And as I said before… Don’t be that guy.
(PS- The ‘Jewish’ colors are usually thought to be blue and white/sliver. I’m not aware of any ‘Muslim’ colors. But there is Kwanza… and those colors are black, red and green.)
Comment by ImNotBlue — December 13, 2007 @ 4:45 am
I believe the tradition of gift-giving began with the Magi bring gifts to the Lord Jesus. What would prompt the wiccans or whomever to exchange gifts?
The origins of WHEN Christmas is celebrated comes from celebrations of when the days started getting longer. There were gifts exchanged (Saturnalia et Sigillaricia), celebrations held and a relaxation of rules. In Rome, it was called Saturnalia which was supplanted by Natalis Solis Invicti. As the Christian Church took prominence, a Celebration of the Sun became a celebration of the Son.
The Magi had a LOT more to do with the Epiphany than Christmas, and Christmas had a lot of the trappings of Saturnalia (the 12 days of advent supplanted Saturnalia, etc…), and gift giving was between people in legal relationships rather than Family, employers to employees, tenets to landlords and such.
In fact, after the Reformation, most Proestant denomination condemned Christmas celebrations as “rags of the Beast”. In Colonial America, Christmas was actually outlawed in many areas, including Boston. Even after it was legal, it was not celebrated as being thought of as a British holiday, and Britain was the enemy.
Christmas was pretty much dying out until Charles Dickens wrote “A Christmas Carol”, which reinvented the holiday as one emphasizing family and compassion over communal celebration and hedonistic excess (which was still a part of the dwindling observance). Christmas was declared a United States Federal holiday in 1870, signed into law by President Ulysses S. Grant.
By the 30’s, Christmas had been latched onto by retailers as a way to move goods that had not sold during the rest of the year, and the retail powers wanted to get the US Government to move Thanksgiving so to extend the Christmas shopping season. This was defeated by a coalition of religious leaders and newspapers protesting the idea.
The idea of Christmas being a time of gifts is generally a modern one, and the statement that “Without Christmas, most American businesses would be far less profitable.” puts the lie to the idea that those pushing the “War On Christmas” are doing it out of religious ideas, as religious celebrations have VERY little to do with the month of shopping that Christmas has become, historically.
Then again, I wouldn’t expect a history lesson from opinion shows.
Comment by Cory!! Strode — December 13, 2007 @ 12:12 pm
It’s funny… Atheist telling Christians what Christmas is!LOL!
Comment by Shane — December 13, 2007 @ 2:31 pm
It’s funny… Atheist telling Christians what Christmas is!LOL!
Since some Christians apparently believe their sect invented gift-giving (and pre-dated the Romans), it’s pretty clear many of you don’t have a clue about your own faith.
Comment by Arthur — December 13, 2007 @ 5:11 pm
Hey Artie.Merry CHRISTmas.Are you putting up your Holiday tree?
Comment by Shane — December 13, 2007 @ 5:24 pm
YULE tree, SHANE. Which, btw, pre-dates Christianity.
Comment by Arthur — December 13, 2007 @ 5:28 pm